Large Group#8: Spiritual Warfare, part two

Monday, 2012, May 21

Last Monday we wrapped up our discussion on spiritual warfare. Jonathan and Peter B shared about the armor of God (super important and helpful!), some of their personal experiences with matters of the spiritual kind, and some practical advice on discernment and supporting those who are more sensitive to spiritual things. We had an hour of Q&A after learning about armor of God.

In the last half-hour, we talked about the death that occurred last Friday.

Read the whole post for the details!

Jonathan shared about his own personal experience. He’s very aware of spiritual warfare throughout his life growing up in Africa.

Ephesians 6:10-18 – the importance of the armor of God

-Spiritual piece of advice: Cover each other with your shield of faith

-Practical piece of advice: When dealing with demons, distance the person from the demon (eg. if the person is hearing voices, ask the person what the voice is telling him/her; don’t address the demon)

From Large Group#7, we know that demons do exist; but thankfully you do not have to worry about them a whole ton. Some people will have to deal with them (based on what part of the body they are) and some people will not. Often the people who don’t have to deal with spirits will think the people who do are crazy, but just remember that we should rejoice and honor those who are doing God’s work, whether we understand it or not.

We are very prone to two errors: (1) thinking that demons don’t exist; (2) being super involved/obsessed with demons.

-The way Peter B counters (2) is doing a lot of practical, tangible, real world, non-spiritual ministry (focusing on the tangible world); eg. leadership meetings, large group, helping out at Skid Roe, etc.

Q&A session (missed some questions—couldn’t type fast enough):

Q: Skepticism for charismatic circles?

-you can very much overdo thinking everything is spiritual. And you know, some things really aren’t spiritual (eg. your laundry being dirty is not caused by the dirty-laundry demon)

-we are told to test the spirit, test prophets, etc. It is important to test the truth and the fruit of whatever it is you are skeptical about.

Q: ??? [Describe some spiritual events]

-Spiritual events usually come out of the blue, work very quickly, and cause emotions that are very out of proportion with any of the events that may have triggered it.

-Peter had a lot of trouble between differentiating being depressed versus being attacked by a spirit. However, there are tangible differences.

Eg. Peter was doing something, and Stephen told him to stop it, and then Peter became irrationally angry and upset and suicidal. This does not come with depression because depression comes slowly, but this was very sudden. So he left the room, prayed to God, prayed to put on the armor of God, and he felt a very visceral sensation of something leaving. And he felt fine again afterwards.

Eg. Another student here was very discerning in regards to the spiritual realm. For four times without talking w/ each other or meeting with each other, that person and Peter have been in different parts of campus and felt the same feeling of sadness from someone else.

-Some people have the gift of empathy; eg. both of them were interceding for another student who was very depressed, and these incidents all occurred when that person was attempting suicide.

-Eg. Multiple people having the same prophetic dream, which came true

-Eg. Peter has felt some spiritual influence; walked 30 blocks away from campus in a haze, before he realized what was going on and prayed about it and put on the armor of God.

Q: An example that happened recently?

-There are certain typical sins/tendencies that people fall easily into. Often times, to tell whether this tendency is caused by a spirit, you base it off of how easily it comes on and is gotten rid of, and how widespread it is. (So if it’s easy-come, easy-go, and/or widespread, that’s probably pointing to a spirit)

-These experiences are typically 3 or fewer times per year that Peter tangibly comes into contact with a spiritual force

-Caltech is an easy target b/c it is a very iconic place and is therefore also an important spiritual tool

Q: How do you put on the armor of God?

-It’s different for every person. Jonathan simply prays about it and tries to be very intentional about it in his prayer (so he tries to avoid making it into rote repetition—on the other hand, sometimes even the rote is very powerful in itself).

-Practically speaking, just pray it right out of the bible. This reminds you of the truth and the word, lets you talk to God, and it has a tangible spiritual effect. And you’ll be able to tell that there is indeed a difference from having the armor on and the armor off (according to Peter).

Q: Have you ever interacted with good spiritual forces, and not just demons?

-Everyone has interacted w/ the Holy Spirit, hopefully often, whether you feel it tangibly or not.

-Eg. Peter was feeling beat down and the people who usually pray for/with him were also feeling beat down, and he could feel all these (bad) spiritual things going on in campus. Then he saw an angel. It was fleeting, and hauntingly beautifully scary (that’s why bible says don’t be afraid of them, b/c they’re on our side :))

-There are a few places on campus where generations of Techers have used and as a result some good spirits hang out there; eg. at Throop Pond (Frosh Prayer) and Millikan Bridge (BridgeFridayNoonSing). You can think of it as residue of people in the past doing stuff there.

Q: For those of us who don’t feel spiritual powers, how can we best support the fellowship?

-Being in good relationship w/ each other, loving each other. If there’s someone you know who has been dealing with spiritual stuff for a while, hang out with them. Loving and supporting them, especially in those times when they’re worn out by this, is one of the most helpful things you can do. Praying with them, supporting them and helping them out.

-There are 4 kinds of tired: physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual.Helping people rejuvenate in those four ways are extremely helpful

Q; If a nonbeliever has a demon, can they be saved?

-Definitely; that’s one of the powers we have. The shield of faith—we can use that to shield one another from demons.

-And it won’t affect their eternal salvation.

-Demons cannot seize on positive emotions

-Satan’s very good at twisting things: he can twist emotions, he can twist Scripture. But overall, if it’s a positive thing, then you don’t have to worry about it

Q: If people have demon possession, will they know?

-Generally, no. It’s not something immediately obvious to them because the demons won’t affect that person in a blatantly destructive way.

Q:??? [spiritual gifts and importance of community]

-Galatians 5 – life by the spirit

-It’s hard to have the Holy Spirit w/o a spiritual realm. And there are passages describing how Jesus talks and deals with spirits.

-It’s important to have a community. For instance, you can think you’re doing super awesome things, but you won’t know if you’re actually causing harm to those around you. If you do those in a community, they can watch out for you. All things need to be done in community (eg. prophecy) and needs to be looked at and tested. Testing your own fruit is not something you can do by yourself; that’s why community is so important and we’re stressing that point so much.

-We all have different gifts (see 1Corinthians12) and no one gift is greater than another

-Not all spiritual gifts are in the “go out and [do something]” form (teach, heal the sick, minister, etc.). Eg. Robb’s gift is to give a feeling of peace to those around him. He doesn’t notice himself discerning things, and it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking “how come I don’t have any spiritual gifts?” This is something that you can’t see yourself but others would be able to see it for you.

            -He’s more of a be’er than a do’er

Q: Why should you as a Christian care?

-There are spiritual gifts of the satanic kind (b/c Satan is the lord of this world)

-Good inherently takes more energy than the destructive. (There is an activation energy for doing good.) Why do people work for satanic spiritual power? The reason is that in exchange to get the good things the person wants, he/she would do what the demon wants.

-It’s important to remember  that their power is not over our power. God’s power is the greatest.

Q: But based on Ephesians 6, we’re not supposed to treat them (people with satanic spiritual power) as our enemy?

-When you deal with them, you’re removing the power that the demon has. You’re not cursing the person in the process, so don’t worry about it.

Then we talked about the death which occurred a few days before. To me personally, I learned that it’s very easy to get caught up in guilt, regretting not getting to know the deceased better when I had the opportunity to. But this is also a call to minister to the campus and befriend the people who are easily overlooked (which are especially off-campus students). They need support, and they need Jesus.

This is a perfect time to support one another and pull through together.

God bless.