Large Group #4: Calvinism and Rag Retreat commentary

Hey there fellow siblings in Christ,

DISCLAIMER: Even though today's large group spoke about Calvinism, CCF does not in any way promote or belittle any particular view. We welcome all, and we're all up for discussion to challenge our views and help one another grow in our understanding and faith in God :)

That being said, today Tim gave an overview of what Calvinism is and what it means to him, as it's something he has thought about a lot in the past. Afterwards, we talked a bit about the rag retreat happening next week (if you're interested, you should sign up! Contact Madeleine)

Read on for the full description (I found that Tim's own notes were much more detailed than mine, but I've recorded some questions people asked during the meeting, so here's a mixture of the two):

Calvinism is more of a worldview than a set of doctrines. It is a worldview that focuses primarily on God’s sovereignty and authority in everything, but especially in the process of how one becomes a Christian.

Calvinism is named after John Calvin, a leading figure in the Reformation. He is not responsible for its title, or for its formulation as a series of five points. But he was the primary influence in developing the Calvinist worldview.

Today Calvinism is typically presented in five points, which were developed as the antithesis of the five articles of Arminianism. They are often summarized by the acronym TULIP: 1) Total depravity 2) Unconditional election 3) Limited atonement 4) Irresistible grace 5) Perseverance of the saints Although none of these phrases occurs verbatim in the Bible, each of these doctrines is rooted in Biblical teaching.

1) Total depravity: Isaiah 64:6, 1Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1-4, Romans 8:7. Total depravity does not assert that everything we do apart from Christ is evil. But it does claim that in our natural state we are incapable of doing anything deserving of God’s favor. We are not just weak; we are dead in our sins. A dead body doesn’t just have trouble saving itself; it can do literally nothing.

2) Unconditional election: Ephesians 1:4-6, 2:8-9; Romans 8:29-30 Unconditional election follows from total depravity. Since we are incapable of doing anything to merit God’s favor, God must therefore choose to save some (the “elect”) unconditionally, that is, without regard to their own actions. We see in Romans 8:29-30 the chain of salvation. Being foreknown by God implies not just that he knows what our actions will be, but that we have been chosen and loved by him. It is in this sense that Jesus says to the goats in Matthew 25, “I never knew you.” After we are chosen, we will inevitably be called, and then justified, and then glorified.

3) Limited atonement: 2 Corinthians 5:21 Limited atonement is the teaching that Christ did not die for the sins of the entire world, but only of the sins of the elect. It is perhaps the most controversial of the five points. After all, doesn’t the Bible claim that Christ died for everyone? But unless we want to argue for universalism (the belief that everyone will eventually be saved), Christ’s atonement must be limited either in its power or in its extent. By limiting the atonement to the elect, we maximize its power. We claim that Christ’s death does not just provide the possibility for us to be saved; rather, it actually saves us. 

Some people call themselves 4-point Calvinists and leave out this point.

            1. Christ died for all the sins of everyone

            2. Christ died for all the sins of some people

            3. Christ died for some of the sins of everyone

Tim believes that it’s quite clear from the bible that not everyone is saved, so cross out #1.

#2 is the Calvinist option— Christ died for some of the elect, but they are completely saved. (atonement is unlimited in power, but its extent is limited)

#3 is the Arminian option – Christ died for all, but… (atonement is limited in its power, but not in its extent)

Note: Isaac asks Tim to define salvation. Salvation = God forgives our sins and we get to be in heaven with him

4) Irresistible grace: John 3:8, 6:44 Irresistible grace is the teaching that if we are chosen by God, he will draw us to Himself so that we will eventually choose to follow Him. It does not, however, imply that we will be unwilling participants in this process.

When asked “why doesn’t God just save everyone if he has to power to do so?” Tim answered that most Calvinists would answer that God is trying to maximize his glory, and part of that means that he chooses some and not others. But we don’t really know, because we don’t know what God’s thinking.

Calvinists try to interpret the bible as God would view it. “How do we know how God would interpret it? Are not his thoughts above ours?” The answer to that is we have to read the bible for ourselves.

Isaac asked a question about the first point: Total depravity. If we’re all born totally depraved, then we don’t have free will? We talked for a long time on this. Some said that we’re not born with sin but we do have a sinful nature (because of Adam), some said that we are since Adam is our representative and he sinned, we are responsible for that as well, so we are all born sinners. This goes on and on.

5) Perseverance of the saints: John 10:28-29, Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 1:5, Jude 1:24 Perseverance of the saints is the teaching that once you become a Christian, God will keep and protect you so that you remain a Christian. It does not, however, imply that anyone who is part of the visible church will remain so. There are false converts, which is why we are urged to test ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:5).

How do these ideas of Calvinism affect us?

1. Increases Worship

            -Salvation is not due to us but due completely to God

2. Increases our love for God, and decreases our pride

            -Luke 7:47 parable of the two debtors who were forgiven their debts, and the one who loves their master more is the one who was forgiven more.

            -there is nothing to brag about.

3. Increases compassion

           -it was not any merit that I had that I’m a Christian and someone else is not, but it’s because of God’s grace. I could very well be in the position of someone

4. No lost causes

            -When we see someone far from God, we have confidence that God can change that person

            -I was no different from that person, but God changed me, so we are confident he can change that person as well.

5. Increases evangelism

            -Knowing that salvation was due to God, we have the assurance that it’s not up to me or my merits whether someone is saved, and that God can make even my mistakes or lack of talent into something he can use. (Less focus on self, more focus on God and sharing God)

One question was how are we more assured in our salvation if God elects beforehand. How do we know we are one of those who are saved, what if we’re one of the people who thinks we’re saved but we’re actually not?

Tim says this shifts the focus of doubt to where it ought to belong. He says that all of us should be able to see how God has worked in our lives and so we are able to have our own testimony about it. Robb says that this is another thing where we judge by the fruit of the person.

Rag Retreat

(next week!)

Disclaimer: you’re not forced to take part in the rag ceremony just because you’re coming to the retreat. The retreat is also a very good time to decompress J

Rag program began from the YMCA and was meant for children as they grew more mature both mentally and in their faith. Skippy went through the program when he was little, so it meant a lot to him.

Two decades ago the fellowship underwent a major split, and when it eventually came back together, it was agreed upon that there was a need for another foundation for the fellowship to build on.

Seven colors (and what they mean for Tim):

-note: they don’t represent levels, they’re not a ranking system. They’re meant as a tool for you and your discipleship partner to mark how you’re growing in your faith.

Blue – leaving

            -leaving behind whatever you were like before to follow Christ.

            -for Tim, he left behind his need to be approved by other people. He decided to depend only on God and not care so much of what other people thought…

Silver – finding

            -treasure all the new life you’ve found in Christ

            -finding your place and you continue taking root in where you are

            -for Tim, this was joining CCF and joining LBC; it was the first time for him joining a Christian fellowship and experiencing that

Brown – service

            -for Tim, being large group coordinator, and learning what his gifts are, and serving the fellowship

Gold – understanding

            -understanding your place in the [body of Christ]

Red – sacrificing

Purple – deepening

            -this differs from person to person.

White – standing

            -Ephesians 6:13

The person who ties your rag is someone who’s your discipleship partner and is either at the same rag as you or has already had your rag. That person will be your accountability partner.

Each rag has a ceremony that goes with it. It’s very cool and meaningful. It’s not scary or mysterious. Each one is secret in that you don’t get told what it is until you go through it, but the purpose of that is so that you meditate on what you’re committing to God (your next rag).

See Skippy’s summary “Prophets in the Meadow”